Why do we drink the way we drink?
Many of our alcohol-related problems stem from heavy drinking sessions by the young, old, male and increasingly female members of our society. It is estimated that 44% of all alcohol available for consumption is consumed in heavy drinking sessions.
Evidence suggests that about a quarter of the drinking population drinks heavily when we do drink.
Drinking is commonly seen in our society as a rite of passage, particularly for young people, and sometimes drinking to intoxication is not only socially accepted, it is expected.
Why is heavy drinking and drinking to get drunk a significant feature of our drinking culture?
A student's drinking experience:
"Extremely hung over today, 3 days catching up on me, my gut is not processing the alcohol from the day before at all well. Lay in bed most of the day feeling very sorry for myself….I have a serious case of the ‘dries’..my memory is sketchy of what happened the night before but I remember having an almighty spew in the garden of a flat along the way to a mates place. Everyone had a good laugh at me but I assured everyone it was only a tactical spew so that I could continue drinking and last the night..."
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How we are drinking (1.6 MB)
Bunnybeater Comment 1
7:24pm, 30 July 2009
4Allow me to point out why I drink - and, yes, I do drink to get drunk. The answer is obvious, but it seems that many people seem to be trying to find something deeper. The reason many of us drink to get drunk is...
...because it's fun.
Anyone who rolled their eyes at that statement will not be persuaded by anything else that I'm about to say, so you may freely ignore the rest of this comment.
Intoxication is tremendously enjoyable. It creates a well-known sense of euphoria. I presume that you are all aware of this. Getting drunk to the point of being unable to remember which way is 'up' is, despite what many very boring, serious-faced people insist to me, also great fun.
Some people get miserable when they drink heavily, or throw up and then are unable to enjoy themselves. They should stop drinking, if they are unable to enjoy alcohol's sole purpose. Don't try and tell me about the miseries that alcohol inflicts on those who drink it, they're no different than someone who compulsively watches depressing movies and then complains when they feel sad.
Some drunk people decide to walk around town or down a suburbian road while intoxicating, so the police have to waste time rounding these people up when real crimes need to be dealt with. I would note that perhaps this is an issue of bad priorities when the police are forced to waste their time chasing people for the crime of staggering slightly and slurring their speech.
And before anyone starts spinning the "drunk driving" angle, you clearly haven't been to any young (15-21 or so) drinking parties in years, because the social stigma - even when you've only had a couple and everyone around you is completely hammered - against drunk-driving is tremendous. Like, completely overwhelming. Of the many, many drinking parties I have attended in the last few years, not once have I ever seen an intoxicated person enter a vehicle.
We drink because it's fun.
We get drunk because it's fun.
We get hammered beyond all recognition because, like smoking, casual sex, masturbation, soft drugs, comedy, mindless action movies, and mocking Sarah Palin's attempts at delivering speeches, it's fun.
You want a better reason? Enjoying yourselves with your friends and loved ones whilst in a state of euphoria - for me, that's plenty reason enough. Deal with it.
doodled Comment 1.1
8:34am, 31 July 2009
7It's a sad affair when you need alcohol in your life to have "fun".
Being loud and obnoxious, aggressive, abusive, falling down and hurting oneself, making a fool of oneself, annoying others, etc. does not sound like "fun" to me at all.
Ever noticed how deaf everyone else become when a person is drunk? And how clever they think they are? Nothing as much "fun" as trying to reason with a drunk.
I wonder what percentage of problems cops are called out for at night are alcohol abuse related? 80 to 90% I would say. And then everyone wonder where the cops are when real crime issues need to be tended to.
Moderation is the key word, unfortunately that word does not exist in the vocabulary of many. This is probably because of the lack of accountability and self-discipline which fell by the wayside years ago due to the hippy culture embedding it's way in the mainstream schooling system.
No law will change this drinking culture, it needs a mentality change. Unfortunately this will be extremely difficult to change since the liberal ways have been firmly entrenched in our education system. Morals and family values has been undermined by the greater society, how do we address this issue if the very ones you entrust with your child's education are so morally corrupt themselves, and quick to accept mediocrity as a standard?
Bunnybeater Comment 1.1.1
12:58pm, 31 July 2009
0Spare me your pity, I have no need nor want of it.
I congratulate you, Doodled, on your ability to subtly twist my words. I did not say that I "need alcohol in my life to have fun". I said it was one way in which it was facilitated. I even went to the trouble of listing a variety of other, unrelated ways, but perhaps I was overly optimistic in hoping you would pay attention to anything which might contradict your point of view.
"Being loud and obnoxious, aggressive, abusive...et cetera, et cetera"
If your reaction to alcohol is to become aggressive and abusive, then don't drink. Alcohol is fun for the people who, like me, become mellow, elated, and euphoric under the influence. People who throw temper tantrums when they hit the bottle shouldn't drink. Don't extrapolate them out to the rest of us.
"Nothing as much "fun" as trying to reason with a drunk."
I agree. It IS great fun. Sorry, was that not what you wanted to hear?
"80 to 90% I would say."
Ooh, wait, I can make up statistics too! "Approximately 90% of the people complaining about liberalism and the insidious "hippy culture" are balding middle-aged homophobics with erectile dysfunctions who are secretly far more racist than they'd ever admit to being." C'mon, how close was I? Be honest!
"And then everyone wonder where the cops are when real crime issues need to be tended to."
I believe that I addressed this issue in my previous post. Do try to keep up.
"...due to the hippy culture embedding it's way in the mainstream schooling system."
I laughed for two solid minutes at this one. It may interest you to know that I was brought up in a strict, highly conservative, catholic education system, where "liberalism" was openly condemned, authority figures constantly hearkened back to "the good old days" (no, really) and the word "alcohol" was uttered with much the same tone of voice that one might say "holocaust". So don't try to blame this on the education system - at least, not my views.
"No law will change this drinking culture"
So, are we in agreement, then? No raising of the legal age? Huzzah!
"the liberal ways have been firmly entrenched in our education system."
See above.
"Morals and family values has been undermined by the greater society"
Just to be clear, I'm assuming you're equating "being intoxicated" with "being immoral/evil/kicking puppies", right? Right. See, um, my entire initial post for a rundown on that one.
"how do we address this issue if the very ones you entrust with your child's education are so morally corrupt themselves, and quick to accept mediocrity as a standard?"
BURN THE TEACHERS! BURN THE TEACHERS! BURN THE TEACHERS! BURN THE TEACH--
Ahem. Sorry, got caught up with you for a moment there. You seem to be confusing the teachers with the NCEA system. THAT accepts - even promotes - mediocrity. Teachers are, by and large, genuinely well-meaning, motivated individuals that have a true desire to teach and inspire the next generation. Stop trying to blame society's problems on them, and start looking at, well, people like you.
Judge Comment 1.1.1.1
9:37am, 3 August 2009
4While many New zealanders see nothing wrong with getting drunk, and to be frank neither do I, we have to figure out a way to stop young people in particular being the victims of or the offenders in crime. There is a disturbing trend since the drinking age wwas lowered of violence with and drunkeness.
That being said i think they are two different issues> the First is should people be able to be drunk in a public place provided that they are not a danger to themselves or to others? the answer to that is OF COURSE!
The difficulty is how do you determine when that point is. How to do you get people out of parks where harm occurs, ie rape assault or just plain vandelism and back into controlled environments where those behaviours can be modified and to a lessor degree controlled.
These proposed new rules are to try and alter that behaviour, at the end of the day 90 percent of peole who drink do it responsibly and so it without harming anyone, however it may be one day, and one day soon that the where those poeple that cannot conrol themselves have an impact on the lives of thoese people who can! Brother sister, father mother seriously assualted by some drunken scumbag who cant control their fists. Is it not in our interests to do everything in our power to ensure that does not happen to those we care about?
This is not about being the fun police it is about making the community safer for the 90 percent of people to have fun.
zero Comment 1.1.1.2
11:49am, 31 August 2009
0For most people the effects of being a total drunk are learnt through experience, they are not adveristed as unacceptable enough through tv, the media that gets into our homes.More appropriate media emphasis will change thinking!!!
runner Comment 1.1.2
12:24am, 8 August 2009
0I don't think he was implying that you need alcohol to have fun. There are plenty of ways for that. The point is that drinking is fun. You realise it is possible to drunk vast quantities of booze and not become loud, obnoxious, agressive or any of the conditions you described. That is the fun part.
Buttercup Comment 1.1.3
9:38pm, 13 August 2009
5Doodles right when he talks about Moderation, self - discipline, Self respect, Personal responsibly, Self conduct.
Sadly vanishing because of all the liberal crap/laws or lack of, that is now entrenched in our culture. Relating it to New Zealands serious drinking problem.
* You can get very high and happy on fresh air and sunshine, with some very good moo friends, without a drop of booze ! Some of you may want to try this at home ? Give something new a shot, be brave, be bold, you can do this ! Then tell everybody at work, they might want to try this
to !
matt Comment 1.2
3:06pm, 31 July 2009
5You make a good point Bunnybeater. It is great fun, and no law change should prevent you from being able to have the fun that it is your right to have.
What the law change should do is make it more difficult for people to engage in behaviour that is harmful to themselves, and to others. A law change that makes having fun impossible completely misses the point.
The law can only do so much though. It can't regulate and control behaviour, it can only regulate things that might encourage or discourage certain behaviour. And there's only a few things it can manipulate. It would be very difficult if not impossible to manipulate only those things that prevent harmful behaviour and cost to the taxpayer independently of the freedom that allows you to have so much fun: the two are inextricably linked.
I'm sure you wouldn't like to see your friends die in an alcohol-related car crash or be hospitalised by an aggressive, drunk thug (it happens) but unfortunately the same freedom that allows you to get drunk and have fun is the same freedom that allows some idiot to get behind the wheel of a car while under the influence, or to head into town with a pack of drunk mates and attack strangers who happen to look at them funny.
I agree that those people should take some personal responsibility. They're destructive idiots who should take a long hard look at themselves, because they're ruining things for everyone else. The problem is that for whatever reason, they won't, and their choice not to do that has impacts on the safety of others. And that's not fair.
It may be that we all have to sacrifice some freedoms around alcohol in order to discourage that destructive behaviour amongst the stupid few. Making sacrifices like this are what societies do. And nothing I've read in the report is actually that onerous.
Having fun is absolutely the right reason to drink alcohol. It's just a shame that some people take things beyond the point where they are in control of themselves: a point where they can badly harm themselves and others. That's not fun for anyone.
buffy Comment 1.3
9:22pm, 25 August 2009
3My dad was a heavy drinker & did not bring much happiness to his family during his lifetime.No doubt he enjoyed his socializing with his mates that cant be denined.
The problem is that for every person that starts drinking socially 1 : 5 end up being a problem to their family,their friends or the community.thats a pretty high rate bunnybeater.I hope you can recognise the symptoms before drinking becomes a problem to you ie having a drink socially after work next step cant go without a drink after work.
eieio Comment 1.4
9:11am, 26 September 2009
1go for it but dont ask for one single cent of taxpayers money to be spent on you ever!
stmichael Comment 2
2:37pm, 31 July 2009
1I used to partake in binge drinking when I was younger 18-23. I did this because it was part of youth culture at university. It was simply what people did. In particular in smaller provincial towns in New Zealand it was ALL there was to do. But, I also think that socially and in work places excessive drinking is encouraged. There seems to be little publication of the risks - such as the effects on the developing brain until 25 years of age. It wasn't until I was 23 I realised that I didn't like binge drinking very much, that it wasn't very healthy and in fact there were other ways to socialise. But it took me a while to figure this out.In fact the people that get very drunk often are unlikely to be the kind of people I want to socialise with anyway. Although I find this behaviour distateful if people want to drink like that and have "fun" as some commentators put it, I think this should be allowed - I think it would be wrong that a draconian system was in place. I am now 28 and much prefer going out for a meal or to the theatre rather than drinking. I do still enjoy driking wine on these occaisions but in moderation. I wouldn't want anything to increase the price of alcohol as I still drink it and wouldn't want my glass of chardonnay to be 50 cents more expensive.
Ultravex Comment 3
2:44pm, 31 July 2009
5I think educating people about alcohol simply does not work. It is like trying to educate people about the effects of crime - it does not lead to less crime taking place.
Why does education not work? Simple - There is a large proportion of people who simply do not care. They might be well educated, or they might have never finished school. If a person does not feel the consequence of their actions then they have no reason to change their behaviour.
Enough about that. So what does work? Money is the one thing that motvates/demotivates people best - it's linked to people's actions more then any other force in the world (forget sex, beauty, religion, love - money has made and broken empires and individuals the world over). If you want to alter people's actions then you need to use economics.
Availability is not an issue of having too many liquor outlets, opening/closing times, or age restrictions - it is about what people can afford. If the booze is cheap enough for at 16 year old on a part-time weekend job then he/she will buy it. If it is expensive enough (without being too unreasonable) to make them think twice about bying it then there is your deterrent.
Social change will follow, liquor outlets will diminish, youth drinking will shrink, binge drinking will shrink.
The only other issue to consider here is who has the guts to impose a significant increase in the price of alcohol? Who is willing to become so unpopular that people will hate them with a passion?
There will be supposed casualties. We will hears stories about old people who can no longer afford to buy brandy on their pensions. We will hear about the average working person not being able to drink more then a beer or two on their night out. bBrs will complain about huge fall in patronage.
GOOD! That is what we want - we want less people to drink. Or better put, we want more people to drink less. I agree, there will be 'tough times', but if we are going to make a change it will not be easy or fun. At the end of the day, we simply do not need alcohol as much as many people/liquor companies would make us believe we do.
Dominique Comment 4
4:18pm, 31 July 2009
2Why do we drink the way we drink?
First, people drink the way they drink for different reasons. People who do not drink also have different reasons for not drinking. We need to keep this point closely in mind when thinking about making general laws.
Second, there are certain socio-cultural conditions that increase the liklihood that certain segments of our society will binge drink. I want to consider five.
Escape. This is drinking to escape the stress of everyday life. A high pressure job, death of a loved one, relationship problems, financial problems.
Courage. 'Dutch courage' - a partially accepted antidote to an imminent stressful event, for example approaching a potential sexual partner.
Losen up. No one likes a 'tight ass' and liquor is an antidote. Also associated with risk-taking - an activity widely encouraged in our society.
Celebration. The routine of drinking. What is a celebration without alcohol? And a better celebration is one where every one 'has a good time' (ie: gets wasted).
Socialisation. Just as smokers hang out, drinkers hang out. It's hard not to drink when everyone else is drinking. When others are drinking to excess, it makes it socially acceptable (in that group) to also drink to excess.
So what?
There are two basic methods to deal with the causes of excessive drinking (1) empowering individuals to control their perceptions of the need/want for alcohol (2) dampen collective sentiment promoting the social acceptability of drinking.
How?
(1) We need to associate excessive drinking with weak character and moderate/no drinking with robust character. Robust people take their worries on the chin and/or share/talk about them. Weak people suppress their worries and pretend they are not there.
(2) Excessive drinkers should be encouraged to self-reflect and should be positively reinforced for doing so. Excessive drinkers should be presented with alternative options for things to do when not drinking - these could be subsidised.
(3) Incentivise and reward not drinking or moderate drinking. Eg: liquor outlets could sell smaller quantities at discounted rates rather than the usual large quantities at discounted rates. Eg: non-alcoholic drinks in bars made very cheap (eg: Red Bull = $1 not $5.50!).
(4) Set a few examples through hard enforcement. My experience is that most people get let off low-level offenses committed under intoxication. I know of people who become martyred as a result - they have beaten the law! This tells others that they can 'get out of jail free' too. Intoxication should be (if it is not already) an aggrivating factor at sentancing and that fact should be widely known.
This examination is partial at best. Sorry for heeps of text. Hope it helps :-) Dominique.
Shell Comment 5
6:15pm, 31 July 2009
0Totally fair point Bunny - fun and euphoria, bring it on. It's genuinely great to hear that none of your teenage drinking party mates have ever driven drunk, truly encouraging to hear. I guess all the thousands of young guys who get pi--ed every weekend and crash cars, create mayhem and violence and sometimes die don't go to your parties. You must have lucked into some amazing group of young people who love to get hammered beyond all recognition yet stay responsible. I'd love to know the secret, no sarcasm intended.
Can't help but point out though, I don't think the A&E departments, women's refuges, police cells and rehab clinics are buckling under the weight of people who watch too many depressing movies. But if repeatedly getting so drunk you don't know which way is up really makes you happy and doesn't mess with your head or hurt anyone around you, then until it does I guess it's not a problem, and the shareholders of the alcohol companies will certainly be glad to hear it.
lockiescott Comment 6
10:00pm, 3 August 2009
0This is an issue of great interest, but let's face the facts. The majority of alcohol problems in our society are in the 40-50 year old age group. So raising the age to purchase from retailers will solve very little of this problem. A point in an article concerning one in five sexual abuse cases is irrelevant to the proposed law change as I can guarantee that less than two percent of any sexual abuse crime would be from an under twenty. Young adults are not completely ignorant and can tell when they are intoxicated, just as anyone else. This issue is ingrained in our society and is passed down from generation to generation so instead of prohibiting the younger generations from having access to alcohol in a controlled, safe environment, such as the home. To be out in town on weekends can be very dangerous, especially for young woman. We should be educating people how to drink in a more socially acceptable manner, similar to the way the French view drinking. The legal age in France is sixteen and there is very little alcohol related crime in any age group. Another issue that should be considered before this law is passed is the jobs it will cost young people. As the law stands at the moment, no person under the age of 18 may sell alcohol from a licensed premises. This new proposed law would then mean that under twenties will not be able to be employed by these businesses. Now this may not stir many people but for the poorest people in our community, students, the alcohol industry is a significant employer. To pass this law would also mean a large decrease in government revenue, and with the expansionary fiscal policy that the government is using at the moment, they need all the revenue they can get, to avoid another Muldoon sized debt. So why should we raise the drinking age again?
Judge Comment 6.1
9:16am, 4 August 2009
2what complete rubbish! what planet are you living on! Whatever planet you are on can we all join where dogs shoot rainbows out of their mouths. 90 Percent of alcohol related harm comes from young people aged 18-24 this includes drink driving, assault etc. I note that one of the lines in your blag says lets look at the facts -that would be a great idea
runner Comment 6.1.1
5:41am, 7 August 2009
0Where did you pull that 90% stat out from? Your rear end? Think you're wrong pal, alcohol abuse happens amongst all age groups, and manifested in many middle aged people as well as younger adults. There are more chronic alcoholics in the 40-50 category than in the 18-24 bracket. Youths drinking patterns are dictacted mostly by peer pressure .. and to an extent are influenced by their older counterparts. Those in the 40-50 are likely to binge because of marital problems or stress ... or a general dependency to alcohol over their adulthood. You cannot deny that any change to the drinking age will not prevent people evolving into alcoholics.
Judge Comment 6.1.1.1
9:38am, 7 August 2009
2excellent! lets keep blaming others for behaviour. Peer pressure made me drink! Its other peoples fault for the way i drink. What complete and utter rubbish! Young people make poor decisions when they drink end of story! the simple way to ensure that those young people who are incapable of making proper decisions because of peer pressure is to remove them from that environment. I cannot believe that you are purporting to know something about this because you are young! of course changing the drinking age will change things every politician has said lowereing the drinking age was a mistake the problem is to many of them are to gutless to fix it. Read the ALAC website regarding statistics on Binge drinking, ask the police, ask the liquor licensing inspector. This is not simply about who is an alcoholic, this is about alcohol related harm in all its froms.
runner Comment 6.1.1.1.1
6:35pm, 7 August 2009
1For the record I am 27, which means the law was changed before I turned eighteen. The bill to lower the age was passed under a National government and the bill to raise it back was defeated under a Labour government 72 votes to 49. They weren't being gutless, a majority realised that it was a knee jerk fix for little gain. Before I turned eighteen it was never too difficult to acquire alcohol. I always knew someone older than me who would purchase it for me if I gave them a small commission. And I did the same once I turned eighteen. So you are just being naive if anyone thinks raising the age will change things, it won't. You just have the same problems as before. If you want to stop young people harming themselves, you have to change societys attitude to alcohol in general. Not an overnight fix.
Quarter Comment 6.1.1.1.1.1
4:17am, 9 August 2009
2I agree 'runner', it was far easier for me to purchase alcohol at 14 (I was a tall teen) but it is much harder now. Even though I obviously look over 18, I have to look over 25 to not get ID'd these days. I don't think the drinking age should be changed.
I have done a fair bit of work in bars, and it was always the older drunk patron who was harder to deal with. Younger patrons were usually apologetic and embarrased about causing their group to leave with them, once they became intoxicated. Older patrons were argumentative and abusive, which could be understanding, being refused service from someone younger - but the same rules apply to everyone.
People are always pointing finger at the young and there is no doubt that there is a significant problem with younger drinkers; though the problem extends to all ages and genders. I'm in the UK at the moment, and the problems here are far worse. I hope NZ doesn't end up with problems like this, and I'm glad that we can have these discussions to try and find an answer - or at least something that is better than the current situation.
buffy Comment 6.1.1.1.2
10:10pm, 25 August 2009
2A few years ago it was the 6 o'clock swill,then as we became more sofisticated it became the 11 o'clock swill,now it is the 3 o'clock (am} swill.what has changed? Probably more alcoholics / capita,more broken homes & more assults & murders.
Suggestion:Cut back the drinking age to 20yrs & bring back the closing time to 11pm.get away from the NZ sycic of rugby racing & beer.
runner Comment 6.1.1.1.2.1
11:08pm, 19 September 2009
0You are joking right?
In most parts of the UK closing time is still 11pm ... the people at the pubs all drink as much as they can before the pubs close. Then they all mill out on to the streets ... thats where the agro occurs.
Kosta.Tabakakis Comment 6.1.1.2
3:49am, 16 August 2009
0Come on people, if you are qoing to use statistics please be professional enough to use them accurately. My advice to you Judge is to read the Law Commission's report "Alcohol in our lives", there you will find that the statement you made about alcohol related harm is incorrect.
HCR Comment 6.1.1.2.1
7:14pm, 17 September 2009
1I agree with buffy. I think the 3am "swill" is a bit of a problem. It seems a lot of "younger" drinkers (and i'm a ancient 31 year old) don't even leave home until around midnight now after drinking at home and then hitting the pubs and nightclubs. I actually am interested in the parts of the law commission report which suggested the "one-way-door" plicy after a certain time but perhaps that should be earlier than the 1am suggested...more like midnight so that at least drinkers are in more of a controlled environment where the bartender can refuse to provide drinks and then the only option is for that person to head home!
carolh Comment 7
8:52am, 25 September 2009
2During the recent trination games we went to some local bars that were showing the rugby. Unfortunately the bar managers seemed to support people who were drunk and obnoxious over other clients who perhaps weren't drinking as much (and so handing over as much money) which was disappointing at the least. From our experience, we probably won't be going back to those bars but surely bar managers/staff should be penalised more often for continuing to serve people who are drunk
runner Comment 7.1
9:09am, 25 October 2009
0Bars and pubs are serving the people because they are paying customers. They may do so freely ... unless they become intoxicated then they could be prosecuted. I know people who have worked in the hospitality industry and they tell me it is difficult to ascertain the drunknesses of some patrons, it is easy for some people to feign sobriety even after many drinks, and not so hard for others. So they have to rely on their own (or at managers discretion) judgement whether or not to serve a customer with alcohol.
Like you said, you always have the option of leaving if you don't like the environment of the licenced premise.
